Lower Intermediate - What's that sound?

great lesson lads - thanks - crisp and clear
how do you conjugate the verb ايقظ ? if i am right it is a stem 4 no ?

I've got a question regarding translation of هذا. It mean's "this", right? Why not say "ما ذلك الصوت?" If you want to say what's THAT sound? Instead of What's this sound.
Thanks for clearing up the use of "this" and "that"

As far as I know, the demonstrative adjective ﻫﺬﺍ can mean both “this” and “that”. This point has been dealt with very briefly in one of the early podcasts, but I can’t remember the title.

I’m not sure how the Arabic verb for “wake” ought to be classified, but I know its principal parts:

Past Tense (3rd person singular, m): ٲﻴﻗﻆ (aayqadha)

Present Tense (3rd person singular, m): ﻴﻮﻗﻆ (yuqidhu)

As far as I remember, both these verb forms are stressed on the first syllable, but the addition of a suffix results in a stress shift.

Hey!! Where is Ehab and Mohamed?!

Well if that's the case, than when is it necessary or appropriate to use ذلك ?

hey guys it's elias .thank you for the coments .
i'm glad you like the lesson.

Dear Hexagonmoon,

I think several points need to be made here:

First, ﺫﻠﻚ is both a demonstrative pronoun and a demonstrative adjective.

Second, both the pronoun and the adjective function as demonstratives of distance, i.e. they are appropriate in situations where the speaker is referring or pointing to a distant object or person.

Third, the demonstrative pronoun is often combined with a preposition. Good examples are provided by “fawqa dhaalik” (furthermore, moreover) and “ba'd dhaalik” (after that). These word combinations have become fixed expressions which are used as time adverbials. “Ba'd dhaalik” occurs once in the podcast entitled “The astronomy lesson”, and there are dozens of examples in the Arabic cartoon videos on YouTube.

Fourth, like ﻫﺬﺍ, the demonstrative adjective inflects for gender and number, and like ﻫﺬﺍ, it is used in tripartite demonstrative phrases: DEMONSTRATIVE ADJECTIVE + DEFINITE ARTICLE + NOUN. There is a good example the podcast entitled “Cute baby” (sentence 1), where the speaker points to a baby. The baby is presumably a few yards from the speaker.

Fifth, ﺫﻠﻚ is underrepresented in the podcasts. We need a podcast where all the forms (masculine, feminine, singular and plural) are presented together.

Dear Hexagonmoon,

I’ve just thought of another interesting point. German presents certain points of resemblance to Arabic. In German the demonstrative of proximity is “dieser”, while the demonstrative of distance is “jener”. In actual fact, however, “jener” is rarely used in everyday spoken German, and “dieser” is employed both as a demonstrative of distance and as a demonstrative of proximity. In other words, “dieser” is very like the Arabic demonstrative ﻫﺬﺍ. If the relationship between “dieser” and “jener” is similar to the relationship between the two Arabic demonstratives, it is easy to understand why ﺫﻠﻚ is underrepresented in the podcasts. All the same, it would be nice to have all the forms of the demonstratives presented together in a single podcast.

Elias says there’s no Arabic equivalent for “What a bummer!” I think Ehab would have used the adjective ﻤﺰﻋﺞ (annoying) here. This word has already been employed in three podcasts: “Just arrived”, “Brothers or Sisters” and “Traffic Jam”.

I think I understand most of your points, Desmond, but I guess I remain unsure of when exactly to use ذلك or تلك

Corpus studies sometimes reveal patterns and trends that even the most competent native speakers of a language are unaware of. I've often been surprised by my own research findings.

I haven't been able to find out whether any corpus studies have been carried out in the domain under discussion. I've consulted Ryding's excellent "Reference Grammar of Modern Standard Arabic", but I haven't found anything that might shed light on the relative frequency of the two demonstratives we are interested in.

If I knew Arabic as well as my main working languages I could carry out the study myself. I'm familiar with all the latest techniques. Unfortunately, I only started to learn Arabic in December 2008, and I've never taken a course in this language. I'm just teaching myself with the aid of the Internet.

oh, (ذلك) is just masculine and (تلك) is feminine. You say (that boy ذلك الولد) and (that girl تلك البنت) but not the other way around. It is as simple as that.

I think its the equivalent if this that these and those , and then use the four forms as such..seems to work for me, but it sometimes produces grins when ordering things in the market, as its probably an old fashioned way of speaking , as my main area of interest is koranic arabic, luckily most arabs seem to like hearing tourists speak archaic arabic , so we get to be friendly very fast.

كول غاي

!كول غاي! فاري نايس

Dear Ehab,

Thanks for your rapid response. I already know how to spell the four forms of the demonstrative adjective ﺫﻠﻚ. It’s easy to find these forms in digitized Arabic grammars and course books, but it isn’t easy to find out exactly how they are pronounced, and it’s even more difficult to find out how they are used.

I think all your listeners would welcome a podcast about the use of demonstratives of distance and proximity. Your podcasts have two great merits which have contributed to the popularity of Arabicpod.net. First, they bring Arabic to life and give learners an opportunity to hear how Arabic words and phrases are pronounced by native speakers. Second, they present Arabic words and phrases in their natural context.

One of the problems faced by learners of Arabic is the blurring of the distinction between demonstratives of proximity and demonstratives of distance. I suspect that ﻫﺬﺍ is used as a demonstrative of distance in situations where a distant object or sound needs to be identified. This is certainly the case when Sierra inquires about the noise from a building site in Beirut. ﺫﻠﻚ, by contrast, seems to be more appropriate in a situation where a distant object or person has already been identified (cf. the podcast entitled “Cute baby”). This is only a hypothesis, and the hypothesis needs to be confirmed or disconfirmed by a competent native speaker of Arabic.

Very nice lesson Sierra and Elias. Everything is clearly explained and you have provided plenty of interesting background. Kudos!

Hello Carl,
No one seems to have answered your query yet. Last month, Ehab and Mohamed started trying out these little disappearing acts. So far, they have always resurfaced. Let's hope it stays that way ...

I also hope it’s going to stay that way, Karen. It would be a pity if Ehab and Mohamed were whisked away by some ill-intentioned ﻋﻓﺎﺭﻴﺕ and ended up in the middle of a desert. Incidentally, the ﻋﻓﺎﺭﻴﺕ would be a good subject for a podcast. These strange creatures play an important role in Arabic literature and often turn up in modern Arabic films.

I fully agree, Desmond. Afreets (or ifrits, among many other spellings) are fascinating beings and well worth a lesson. However, I suspect that Ehab and Mohamed consider the subject more suitable for the intermediate level (or higher). I for one still have a lot of ground to cover until then, but thanks to these podcasts I finally think I'm actually making progress. Happy studying!

Yes, I think you’re right, Karen. The subject would be appropriate for an intermediate lesson. Last year I discovered a fascinating video about ﻋﻓﺎﺭﻴﺕ on YouTube. There was an excerpt from an Arabic film with English subtitles. In one of the most interesting scenes you see a young woman sitting on the edge of her bed. Suddenly the door opens and a cloud of smoke appears. A smartly dressed middle-aged gentleman emerges from the smoke, walks up to the woman and says “Ana 'ifrit.” The English subtitle reads “I’m a demon.” You can see how much is lost in translation.

Victor Hugo, who was very interested in Oriental legends, published a poem about the ﻋﻓﺎﺭﻴﺕ. It is entitled “Les djinns” and has been set to music:

Murs, ville,
Et port,
Asile
De mort,
Mer grise
Où brise
La brise,
Tout dort.

Quick question,

What is the purpose of putting 'fee' before "had'ahi alayaam"? Are you literally saying: "In Beirut in these days" ?

Is this an expression, 'fee had'ahi alayaam'?

Thanks

Dear jacksonsgurufu,

Several points need to me made here:

First, there’s a mistake in the audio transcript. The preposition ﻓﻲ is in the Arabic text and in the recording, but it has been omitted from the transcription.

Second, the preposition “in” is unnecessary in the English adverbial “these days”, but ﻓﻲ is indispensable in the corresponding Arabic expression. If ﻓﻲ were omitted, the phrase in question would no longer be an adverbial. It would simply be a noun phrase like “these days” in a sentence such as “These days were very intense” (NOUN PHRASE + COPULA + DEGREE ADVERB + PREDICATIVE ADJECTIVE).

Third, the English time adverbial “these days” is used with present tense verbs. The corresponding past tense adverbial is “in those days” (not “those days”). In this case the preposition “in” is obligatory. We say “In those days he lived in York”, and not *“Those days he lived in York”.

There is a good example in the Authorized Version of the Bible: “And it came to pass in those days, that (…)” (Luke, ch. 6, v. 12). In Arabic translations of this text the corresponding sentence begins as follows: “wa-fii (ﻮﻓﻲ) tilka (ﺘﻠﻚ) al-'ayyaam (ﺍﻷﻴﺎﻢ)”, which literally means “And in those days”. In this case there is an exact correspondence between the Arabic and English time adverbials.

In the case under discussion the Arabic adverbials used with past and present tense verbs are symmetrical. The corresponding English adverbials are asymmetrical.