Lower Intermediate - Not Worth Mentioning

Thank you, Sierra and Elias, for providing an answer to a question which I asked on 11 August 2010 (see my first comment on the lesson entitled "Hard working").

great lesson - nice to start from the end of the sentence (it is this way I do start analysing music sheet's before playing it)- now the questions :
- idhafa : should the second part not be defined (عدة ابيات) ?
- important :مهم - more important = امهم؟

Dear Plop,
If you run a Google search you’ll find lots of sentences where the plural noun following ﻋﺪﺓ has a zero article. The construction used in the dialogue is grammatically correct, and it isn’t an ﺇﻀﺎﻓﺔ.
ﺃﻫﻢ is an elative. Depending on the context, it can be rendered as “more important” or “most important” (cf. the article entitled “Elative (gradation)” in the English version of Wikipedia). Terms such as “comparative” and “superlative” should be avoided in discussions about Arabic grammar because they inevitably lead to misunderstandings. I’ve already pointed this out to Sierra, but she doesn’t like the word “elative” and continues to describe elatives as superlatives.

This is a postscript to my preceding comment. I’ve been thinking about the word ﻋﺪﺓ. Since this lexical item is a quantifier noun (not an adjective), I was wrong when I said that the construction in which it is employed in the dialogue is not an ﺇﻀﺎﻓﺔ. The absence of the article before the noun ﺃﺒﻴﺎﺖ can probably be explained by the indefiniteness of the concept denoted by ﻋﺪﺓ. If you want to say “a man’s house” in Arabic you leave out the article, but if you want to say “the man’s house” you insert the article before the second term of the genitive construction.

There is another problem that needs to be examined here. If you look up ﻋﺪﺓ in Ryding’s grammar you’ll find several examples where ﻋﺪﺓ is placed after the head noun (p. 226). Perhaps Sierra and Elias can tell us whether there is any difference between the construction used in the dialogue and the construction discussed by Ryding.

hi friends,
my question doesn't concern this lesson, but I didn't find elsewhere the answer , I am keen to know in arabic : shelf-life and edible
thanks a lot

“Edible” is “salehun (ﺼﺎﻠﺢ) ll'akl (ﻠﻸﻜﻞ)”. I'm still looking for a term corresponding to "shelf life". Perhaps Sierra and Elias will have a look at the tins in their pantries.

I’ve just found a word combination that might be the Arabic equivalent of “shelf life”. I’ll have to write it from left to right: tariikh (ﺘﺎﺮﻴﺦ) intihaa’ (ﺍﻨﺘﻬﺎﺀ) al-salaahiyya (ﺍﻠﺼﻼﺤﻴﺔ). The first word means “date”, the second “expiry”, the third “validity”. Perhaps somebody from the Middle East can tell us whether this word combination can be found on the labels of products from the Middle East.

I've just noticed that I've used "Middle East" twice in the last sentence. This is stylistically unsatisfactory. I ought to have written "products from Arabic-speaking countries".

excellent, challenging lesson. I have a couple of questions. Is تذكر (metionalbe) related to تذكر (remember)? Also are all phrases coming aftter كلما in the past tense? For example, how would people say "Whenever you want"?
Thanks!

desmond
maybe UMMA would be better word than Mid east.

Does anyone know the word for dialect?
if you want to ask which dialect do you speak?

@jayrag

“Umma” is a religious, not a geographical term. The Arabic word for “dialect” is ﻠﻬﺠﺔ. The plural is ﻠﻬﺠﺎﺖ (transcribed as “lahjaat”). Since ﻠﻬﺠﺔ can also mean “accent”, native speakers of Arabic often say “accent” when they mean “dialect”, just as native speakers of German often say “pocket” when they mean “bag” (Ger. Tasche).

@jayrag

If you would like to know how ﻠﻬﺠﺔ is pronounced by a native speaker of Arabic, you should listen attentively to the lesson entitled “Handwriting”.

thanks a lot Desmond

WISHING EVERYBODY AT ARABIC POD EID MUBARAK

In the phrase عدة أبيات we have an example of indefinite I9aafa. That's right - I9aafa can also be indefinite, because the concept of possession still applies "several OF the verses." Therefore, the letter ة at the end of عدة is pronounced as تا.

When عدة is used after the noun, it is NOT in i9aafa, and if the ة changes in pronunciation it does so because of the case it carries and not because of the rules of i9aafa. Clear?

تُذكر and تَذكِّر have the same root ذ-ك-ر, but they come from different verb patterns. تُذكر comes from the verb pattern (I) ذَكَرَ, which means (predictably) "to mention." Whereas تَذَكّر is itself verb pattern V and it means, as said, "to remember."

As for the use of كلما, it always takes a past tense verb even if the meaning is in the present tense. "Whenever you want" therefore would be كلما أردتَِ (m/f).

Along with لحجة there are two other commonly used words for dialect: عَماية and دارِِج.

And yes, عيد مبارك! And كل عام وأنتم بخير!

Dear Sierra,

I was just about to switch off my computer when I noticed your latest comments. What about "shelf life"? Is the word combination I mentioned correct? Or do you find something else on Lebanese labels?

Best wishes
Desmond

Hey Desmond, there doesn't appear to be a direct translation for "shelf life" in Arabic. Instead, Arabic tests just refer to فترة الحفظ قبل البيع.

فترة = period
الحفظ = to save or preserve
قبل = before
البيع = sale

Let me know if you have any related questions!

Thanks for the information, Sierra. I'm not surprised that there is no direct Arabic translation for "shelf life". There are no direct equivalents in French or German either.

In order to find an acceptable equivalent for this sort of term you just have to look at the tinned food you find on the shelves of your local supermarket. If the word combination you mentioned is found on labels in shops in Beirut that will be the correct equivalent.

One of the best ways to find out how languages work is to compare labels and public notices written by native speakers of various languages. Such comparisons can be used for pedagogical purposes. Most language learners assume that that people from different linguistic communities share the same world view, and they have to be taught that each linguistic community has a different world view.

Labels would be a good topic for an intermediate lesson. English and Arabic labels with similar functions but different linguistic structures could be used to demonstrate that literal translation is absurd.

Best wishes
Desmond

لا افهم كيف هذا الصور مربوط بالدرس