Intermediate - Classical vs Colloquial

Very nice summaries here. Since you asked, as to the equivalent of نائبه (naa2ibuh) I would venture to say that in corporate American it is quite standard for the corporate structure to use the title "vice-president" extensively to refer to several people. A "president" may be, but may not be, the highest officer. (The highest is typically titled the "chief executive officer.") Unlike in the U.S. national political system, corporations may have many "vice-presidents," who may be distinguished by title from higher level "executive vice-presidents." Basically, many corporations use the term "vice-president" to refer to the lowest level of officer.

I don't know if this use suggests that "vice-president" is synonymous with "naa2ibuh," or if there is a better Arabic term.

@ Ehab & Mohamed

I think "deputy" is the word you're looking for. In English-speaking countries there are deputy managers and deputy prime ministers.

Incidentally, "classical" and "colloquial" are adjectives, not nouns. You can't say "to speak classical" or "to speak colloquial". You have to add a noun and say "speak classical Arabic", "speak classical Latin", "speak colloquial English", etc.

Mohamed’s translation of the dialogue conveys a somewhat odd impression. I think the word “vice” should definitely be avoided in line 6. Among other things, “vice” can denote an evil, degrading, or immoral practice or habit (’ayb (ﻋﻴﺐ)). If Wisam is his boss’s vice, the two men must have a rather kinky relationship, and if Wisam is going to meet his boss on a Saturday they are presumably going to have what is known in English as a dirty weekend.

In this case Desmond, I would think it appropriate to have the winking smiling face with the Arabic! I couldn't help but think of the English connotation as well, but I am strangely pleased by the accidental poetry of translation, even in a silly little case like this. : )

As to the issue of knowledge of salaries discussed in the Podcast, the reason why many corporate officers' salaries can be known is that to comply with securities law (in the U.S., and probably elsewhere as well), the compensation of many top officers must be disclosed. However, I don't think it is common for people in general to discuss their compensation.

@Desmond - Not sure what the books and articles might be saying, but I believe the word "deputy" for titles in American corporations is quite rare. I litigate cases for American and international corporate clients and I do not believe I have ever heard or seen that word used for a title. "Vice-president" is the title used and I think that is what is intended in the podcast.

In contrast, I believe the word "deputy" is well-suited for certain municipal or other government positions.

@ durruti

I agree. I couldn't help laughing when the winking eye appeared in the bracket. The wink seemed singularly appropriate.

Mistranslations are often hilarious. I once found the following notice above a bed in a small French hotel: "If you have any desires during the night please ring for the chamber maid."

@ chazyouwin

"Deputy manager" is very common in British English, and it occasionally crops up in American publications, too. Examples:

(1) Mamood Imamdin, deputy manager of Asda in Clapham, estimates that by the end of trading at 6pm tonight a staggering 25,000 people will have passed through the supermarket's check-outs over the 24-hour period. (The Guardian 24.12.1996: 4)

(2) One notably fast learner is Hartmut Issel, 19, deputy manager of the retail outlet of East Berlin's Cityback Bakery. (Time 30.7.1990: 30)

"Deputy Prime Minister" is equally common on both sides of the Atlantic. I have found 112 examples in "Time Magazine".

@Desmond No doubt that "deputy" is commonly used here in government and with government service.

From what I can discern from an internet search, it looks like "deputy" in American private industry is used in phrases like "deputy manager" and "deputy editor," particularly in some industries like publishing, food service, and hotel management.

It seems it commonly conveys the notion of a single person who has the authority of the manager when the manager is unavailable. It can also be an ad hoc extra embellishment.

I think "vice-president" in these industries is probably still used, and is likely to be the more prestigious title. I believe there probably are no pertinent regulations regarding the usage (although I would not be surprised to find some).

A LinkedIn search shows that "Deputy General Counsel" is a title for some people I know. However, they are also Vice-Presidents. So they are "Vice-Presidents for ______ and Deputy General Counsel." I suspect that in these cases the notion is that they are above and beyond the typical Vice-President, more like a potential substitute for the GC when the GC is away. But note the usage of "deputy" in addition to vice president.

How these words may translate to the Arabic - I have no idea.

@ chazyouwin

I think usage is determined to a certain extent by the size of a company. The person in charge of a large company is often referred to as "chief executive officer" (CEO), and "deputy chief executive officer" is a very common term for the second-in-command. In the case under discussion it is therefore relatively easy to avoid the word "vice".

However, the great advantage of Mohamed's translation is its involuntary humour. Everything seems to make sense. Wisam is his boss's vice, they have arranged to meet at the week-end, and Wisam will receive a salary increase as a reward for his services.

This discussion here on "deputy", or "vice-", or whatever is definitely more than odd. I though we join here to learn some finesses of the Arabic language but not its translation into English, or German, or any other strange language.

@ tau

Diese Diskussion ist bereits abgeschlossen. Ehabs Frage wurde mit gebührender Ausführlichkeit beantwortet.

Salamo 3aykom brothers i have a cuestion the gulf arabic and fus7a is the same or what is the diferences?

Beginning a few days ago I have been unable to download the mp3 files because it has changed somehow... Before when I would right click on the MP3 download the option "download linked file" would appear and I would scroll down and select that but now that option is not there.

مرحبا بك يا محمّد كيف حالك؟ انا لاحظت نقطة. على حد علمي إنت اصلا من السعودية. معظم السعوديين الذين قابلتهم يخالفونك في لهجة سوى كانو نجديين او حجازيين. يعني يتحدّثون بطريقة تشبه حكي بدوي اكثر. صحيح إنت تلفذ ق كجيم مصري لكن بقية لهجتك لا تشبه السعودي إطلاقا. هل هذا بسبب إقامتك في إنجلترا لمدة طويلة من حياتك.؟